Curse

generik · May 20, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Seriously I think skills should be taught for free. Why does the price have to increase the more you use the skill trainer?

If PvPers use the skill trainer to UAS quickly, seriously does that unbalance anything?

Skarjak · May 20, 2006, 02:34 AM // 02:34

I don't think 1k is too much.

My canthan character is a ritualist, which means I have to buy every single skill. Yet, the most I've ever borrowed from my stash is 5k (for the max armor), which I repaid within a few hours. I have NEVER farmed with this character.

Yet, everytime I complete a quest, I usually have enough gold to buy a skill (or two). And I always have enough money to buy a capture signet when I use one up.

I really don't see how having to buy skills is bad. If you do the quests and don't just rush through the game (in which case you can still easily get enough money to buy the 8 skills you need), you should be buying skills every time you go to a town or an outpost.

You have to remember that now, 80% of the game is for level 20. You no longer have to save up money for armor. Once you've got your armor, your weapons and your runes, the only thing you can use that money for is skills.

clarianaeneas · May 20, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Yeah, 1k is too much, they might think it's a good gold sink, but let's face it, for most players making money isn't that easy.

Soccer55 · May 20, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper Assasin

1k is not too much, but black dye is just ridiculous, i have not got a single drop and neither have my guildies(about 30) since factions have come out. The price has also risen to 8k, so if i want an assasin in all black, i have to fork out 40k for it. The weapon upgrades are through the roof as well.

I've only gotten 1 black dye drop since Factions was released and that was when I was farming for Naga Pelts on Shing Jea Island so that my characters could do the Naga Oil quest.

-Tom

Witchblade · May 20, 2006, 04:33 AM // 04:33

1k is too much cuz in Factions u have to buy everything

but it's a gold sink

so u wont see a change to this

**cosyfiep** · May 20, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Black dye...have gotten 2 this week alone....none in the past; maybe my luck is changing?

skill points.....cost is too much for new characters. ok for the old ones if they already have the skill points (mine dont have enough points nor plat)....each core class got 30 new skills so thats 60 skills for 1 new character....yes about 10 of those 30 are elites ---but the signet costs the same as the skill so whats the difference?
SOO if you have 4 tyrian characters needing to buy 60 new skills each....thats 240plat. add to that the new armor at 15plat a piece (or 1.5k if that is your flavor) then you have another 75plat/character (if you buy new headgear as well) if you buy the most expensive armor....now lets total that up. thats 540plat to get all the skills and 15k armor for 4 tyrians....lets start on the canthans since they got almost NO skills for free (yes the tyrian skills quest were nice...go kill something and get an item and a skill---me thinks my ritualist will be doing some skill quests in tyria to get some of the ele skills for free!)...the new ones dont get a break....its the same declenation for the skill costs---and they have to buy them all--no quests with skill rewards.....outside of the first few skills you get. BUT they dont have as many skills as the other core professions (havent added them all up, but dont think there are as many from what I have seen). Though my 2ndary is a core professions so there are all the old skills (about 30-40) plus the new ones for that .......argh I will never have enough plat!

Yes the 1plat/skill is a little too much, but many of the skills are repeats too....so my tyrians arent going to be getting all of the new skills until they have extra plat to waste on duplicates, I will only get new ones now that are different from the old ones and make a significant difference in which skills I put in my bar. And my ritualist will be making decisions on the core 2ndary she has....does she really NEED all those skills???????????
I guess I need to take up farming in my spare (if I had that) time...........

Lebdan · May 20, 2006, 05:07 AM // 05:07

I'd still rather get skills instead of skill points for rewards in quests.

I'm not the greatest PvE fan now. What I think was great, back in Prophecies and when skill buying wasn't a gold sink, was get to the next city and find the skill trainer to get all those cool new skills and play around with them. Now I get to an outpost, stare at the skills in the trainer list and say "No, I'll need the money later". I usually finish all quests in a city before moving forward though, and I can tell you that with my first canthan char, by the time I got to House zu Heltzer I had only 2k money, given I bought armor in Kaineng Center.

That char ended up being deleted because I was tired of the same skills in my bar.

I started a new char in Cantha and I'm going through Tyria because I'd rather get skill rewards.

So yea, /signed.

lg5000 · May 20, 2006, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Hey I have an idea! Why don't we have a unlock all skills quest? so that we who play pve can have the same benefit as the pvp community who've been after this for a long, long time.

don't you dare take that suggestion serious. For the pvp fans to have that feature would take away some of the reward of playing, and pve people... suggestions were already made as to how to deal with skills.

Also.. suddenly we have 6 characters to outfit... and you lot were complaining about anet not giving us 8????

samifly · May 20, 2006, 05:16 AM // 05:16

You dont need black armor. you do need skills.

Avarre · May 20, 2006, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Full unlock on a PvE character is a privledge, not a right, much like UAS with faction on a PvP takes effort and faction.

It used to be higher per skill (3k+ at higher amounts). Now it is capped at 1k. The people complaining are those who don't actually unlock that much.

Just in reference to stuff before, I've gotten about 20 black dye drops, 2 in presear. You have to actually, yknow, farm.

Maria The Princess · May 20, 2006, 05:23 AM // 05:23

i dont get to play as much as before.... so i blew all my cash an armors, weps, dye experimantation etc.... no i got no time to farm like before. when i sit on my PC to play i dont ususly get more then 3 hours. and i dont wanna blow it off to do something as boring a farming, i wann arelax and have fun. so YES, its waaay too much. considering that most time si buy skills to experiment with builds, and so many skills are just getting dusty....

Lebdan · May 20, 2006, 05:33 AM // 05:33

For those who are saying the skills start out cheap, the price goes like this:

50->60->70->80->90->100->
125->150->175->
200->250->300->350->400->450->500->
+100 till 1k.
(Wow you can get 20 skills before it stays on 1k. Awesome!)
EDIT1: Answering to Avarre, before they put skills as a gold sink, it added up 10g (or something) per skill bought. By the time you got to 3k cost, you had bought well over all of your main class skills.
20 skills for 6350 gold. Also, by the time you have this ammount of money you'll have to spend at least 7500 gold for armor. What's left?
I know you get a lot of gold in Cantha, but by the time you leave Shing Jea Island you won't have enough money to even buy your full armor in Kaineng Center, which is of walking distance from The Marketplace. That is, unless you love killing the same monsters over and over for loot (which is not my case and of many others).

Also, I agree with lg5000 that UAS is unbalanced, but so is overpricing skill trainers.

And for those who say "go out there and kill a few mobs", I'm not the one that enjoys walking around with henchmen for that. I even avoid mob groups if possible. I'd rather play a mission with people than farming. Much more enjoyable.

EDIT2: Answering Avarre again, I had a much easier time unlocking my first Mesmer character when I started playing Prophecies before the cost change than I'm having now with my Assassin and my (deleted) Ritualist.

Avarre · May 20, 2006, 05:40 AM // 05:40

Well Lebdan, the people who actually should be complaining about skill cost are the ones that buy alot of skills, yes? The ones that HAVE to spend alot of money for skills either way.

Many people in this thread want to be 'casual players' but also have all the skills, a privledge of the ones who farm and work for them. You can't have it both ways. I've spent... about 750k on skills, and they are in no way 'overpriced'. 1k gold, 1k faction. Unlock how you wish.

Lebdan · May 20, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

I -used- to buy a lot of skills. But I can't anymore because the price goes up way too fast.

Also, be wary that if you have all skills in PvE, you'll have them unlocked in PvP. That's far more a benefit for farmers than PvP players in general.

Avarre · May 20, 2006, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebdan

I -used- to buy a lot of skills. But I can't anymore because the price goes up way too fast.

What you seem to be ignoring is that the price becomes static very fast as well, compared to constantly rising after EVERY skill. For anyone who tried to unlock under the old system, you'll know the new one is much, much cheaper.

Lebdan · May 20, 2006, 05:55 AM // 05:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

What you seem to be ignoring is that the price becomes static very fast as well, compared to constantly rising after EVERY skill. For anyone who tried to unlock under the old system, you'll know the new one is much, much cheaper.

As I said on a previous post, the price for skills grows way too fast compared to the past. And again, by the time you reached the 3k/skill barrier you mentioned, you had already bought way more skills than those of your main class.
I know it, I've made my first character going on every city buying every skill there was to buy, and by the time I reached Droknar's Forge I still had enough money to buy the full 1.5k armor, and a hell lot of choices of builds to use on the next trip.
I unlocked all Mesmer skills in PvE back then, and I didn't find it as hard as it is now.

Also, I'll keep emphasis on the fact that once you have every skill in PvE you'll also have them unlocked on PvP, while the other way around is not true.

Maria The Princess · May 20, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Well Lebdan, the people who actually should be complaining about skill cost are the ones that buy alot of skills, yes? The ones that HAVE to spend alot of money for skills either way.

Many people in this thread want to be 'casual players' but also have all the skills, a privledge of the ones who farm and work for them. You can't have it both ways. I've spent... about 750k on skills, and they are in no way 'overpriced'. 1k gold, 1k faction. Unlock how you wish.

so let me get it straight.... as you are saying it:

if you got a real life to follow (job, kids, school) and not more then 10hrs a week to play you cant use the game to its full capacity, even after you payed the same amount of $$$ for it as the guy who farms the whole day? not fair

i understand how FOW armors can be seen as farmers (or ebayers) "privilage" its nothing but looking diffrent and..cuz its so dam expensive, but since when having skills and having more versatility in builds has to be one?

something here not being very fair, considering evrybody payed the full price for the game, we should at least have same skills availbilty, like skill squests... so if i cant play more then 10 hrs, im ok with wearing plain armor, whatever its just looks, but i should be able to get the most out of the game without HAVING to spend alot of boring 55ing hours. i wish i had the time to afford spending 3 hours casting protective spirit+heal breese... but beecause i cant my canthan character will be a "retard"??? or i HAVE to ebay and risk my account getting banned?

Avarre · May 20, 2006, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Quote:

if you got a real life to follow (job, kids, school) and not more then 10hrs a week to play you cant use the game to its full capacity, even same amount of $$$ for it as the guy who farms the whole day? not fair

That's exactly what I'm saying. If you think you need to farm a whole day, every day to get enough skills to play your primary class in any way you might want, then you have a bigger problem than not having enough skills. Nor do you need every skill unlocked to be able to play with versatility.

You can't have it both ways. You can't play uncommonly, play casually, and expect the same benefits people who devote themselves to earning have. Just playing through the game nets you enough to play a character properly, in full armor. All classes can farm to an extent, even moreso now that you can amass faction to trade for resources to sell.

Getting the most out of the game does not include having every skill. Once you do have every skill, you certainly don't use all of them. They're as decorative in the list as FoW armor is on your character. Everyone does have full skill availability, yet some seem more willing to complain about a reduced price (lets face it, if you unlocked many under old system it would cost more, and if you unlock few then the 1k each is nothing) that actually solve a very easy problem.

Quote:

but i should be able to get the most out of the game without HAVING to spend alot of... hours.

You don't need to 55 to farm. That's point one. Second, you want to get as much as the people who put in a lot of hours, without putting in hours? Then what do the people who put in a lot of hours get, nothing more? That would encourage players to not play the game because there's no benefit for people who play more, driving away a very large MMO crowd.

Skills are fine, the 1k amount is easier to handle as a cap than an odder number. Some people can't get all the skills, this is immutable. Whether I seem harsh or not, the game can't simply hand things over to people who don't put time in.

Mimi Miyagi · May 20, 2006, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Full unlock on a PvE character is a privledge, not a right, much like UAS with faction on a PvP takes effort and faction.

It used to be higher per skill (3k+ at higher amounts). Now it is capped at 1k. The people complaining are those who don't actually unlock that much.

Just in reference to stuff before, I've gotten about 20 black dye drops, 2 in presear. You have to actually, yknow, farm.

Huh? I'm complaining, and I've got all Chapter 1 skills on all professions unlocked, and all ranger, monk and necro skills unlocked in chapter 2, except for a handful of elites. And this was via PVE, not PVP.

I'm not complaining about unlocking things quickly, I just hate having to spend money on it in chapter 2. If they had given us quests to unlock skills, I would happily go do those quests and work for it, instead of spending my money.

Lebdan · May 20, 2006, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

You can't have it both ways. You can't play uncommonly, play casually, and expect the same benefits people who devote themselves to earning have. Just playing through the game nets you enough to play a character properly, in full armor. All classes can farm to an extent, even moreso now that you can amass faction to trade for resources to sell.

Doesn't solve the issue with PvP. Unlocking skills in PvE still benefits farmers instead of the PvP player. The 1k gold per 1k faction isn't a true put, as it's a lot easier to get 1k gold farming than 1k faction playing, even in HA and GvG.

How about all the skills I unlock in PvP be usable by my PvE chars, what do you think about it? Works both ways, doesn't it? I've worked hard on unlocking my skills with faction.